Prepare for a disappointment

As a creative director myself i know how hard it is to build something and how easy it is to destory someones work.

I know Full Control has huge ambitions and love for the genre, but they are a small team and SpaceHulk was not the financial sucess they needed.

THE GAP by Ira Glass from frohlocke on Vimeo.

 

With that in mind and as a die hard JA fan, I look on the current state of JAF and i know my expectations and the pomises FC gave us, will be broken.

My gut says, JAF will be a quick simple JA-ish game that probably will entertain me for a short while.
 I had this feeling before on Jagged Alliance Back in Action but if i look to my steam account, i have 150h playtime on BIA and I'm bitcomposer flamer no1.

What I'm trying to tell you is, that you should prepare yourself for a huge letdown of expectations, but please dont beginn to hate or to flame on Fullcontrol. Let us try to make the best out of it, as a mature community, our skin is thick from all the clones the years before.

All the JA Fans are sick of the whole JA clones with no soul. Because of that even FC must be prepared that they get hated posts if they can´t deliver a good basic game. They told us that they make a game for the fans where they go back to the roots of the series. Sure they try their best but they know what the fans expect. And when I hear there will be no animated portraits in the final game I thought you can´t be serious.

When you want to make a good basic JA Game than you have to do it right at its core or you don´t start producing.

If Full Control is able to polish what they have, I think it will be a nice little game (requires challenging AI of course). Definitely not as feature rich as Jagged Alliance 2 which I initially had hoped for. Maybe within 2-3 years by developing the engine it will reach the level/features of JA2. So Full Control is worth following as a tactical game company.

I don't regret supporting the project. I especially liked how well the community manager did his job. Well maybe he could have asked the names people want to use in the game credits instead of apparently using the Kickstarter usernames, but this option was missing from the survey (heard many Kickstarters ask the credits roll name). It would also be interesting in knowing how Chris Camfield helped the project and if modders effected on the development/about working with them. Maybe the "Digital Documentary of the making of JAF" will answer these questions - some of the documentaries are possible the update videos we have seen?

@Shadow

You are probably right we will not see a game that is in all aspects as good as JA2.

I dont have very high expectations because i dont think that we will see the dark humor and all the small details and RPG elements that made JA2 the great game that it is.

 

But i think it will be a better game than Unfinished Business by far.

 

I get your Point but lets wait and see what the finished game is like.

Shouldnt be much worse than BIA etc.. so.... yeah...

 

I mean they had animated, talking heads.. and were still crap.

 

If you expect JA3, you're going to be let down. 

If you expect a 3d port of JA2, you're going to be let down.

If you see in JA:F a base for next v1.13, you might get your wish. Might.

I really hope that the release version is good enough that we all can jump on the modding bandwagon. But there are plenty of obstacles, no rooftops, not enough merc interactions+voices and so on.

@Shadow
Thats what i mean, you are totally right but what was your expectation?What can you possibly do with 1 year development on super low budget? For a JA2 in 3D you need at least 2 years and for Ja3 3 years.
As Shanga (The optimus bear) said all we can hope for is a big big MIGHT.

I kinda fear for FC, because what do you think will the industry say to that new release from FC...

 

I agree, you shouldn't bite off more than you can chew. It shows poor planning and makes a bad impression about the management of the studio. While it's not a terrible game, I respectfully disagree with Thomas calling it Jagged Alliance in 3D Engine (in his last kickstarter letter to backers). This is a JA-ish game, calling it otherwise insults the JA name and most important countless Jagged Alliance fans. You can tear the top off a muffin, but please don't insult my intelligence by calling it a cupcake.

I give props to the team for doing their best. Whether or not it's true about 16- or 18-hour work days is irrelevant, although quite frankly, common during the game production cycle. Unfortunately, in this industry, you don't get points for trying. I don't expect the game will be well received, frankly I'd be surprised if it gets anything above a 6/10. As a backer, I wanted this project to succeed and I realize I'm trampling my investment by being negative. However, in good conscience, I cannot blindly promote something that I know is substandard. Therefor, looking at a big picture, can anyone objectively say, that this game increased the value of Jagged Alliance name? I won't deny there are few that will say "Yes", but I wager, overall consensus will be a resounding "No". Just like every mediocre sequel to a great movie diminishes, and brings negative connotations to, the original, releasing a poor game does the same to the namesake.

Personally, I would rather they focused more on features rather than content. I would be perfectly content if the game had all JA/JA2 features, perhaps even some 1.13, open-ended engine access, while only having a handful of sector maps and weapons. I know from experience, creating art assets is expensive and time consuming. But in the end, while you may not win many new casual gamers on Day 1 of release, having the infrastructure in place for outstanding modding community, it would extend the life of the product that could rival that of JA2. While I can't say for certain, due to final game not being out, I fear Flashback will neither attract new players nor be very useful as a modding platform for the next 1.13 project.

I don't know, I just feel the game looks too different from JA2 and Flashback needs at least 6 months (or more) work on it.

Jagged A. style games have the same problem as the Command and Conquer games. I was a huge fan of the C&C, not to mention the Red Alert and Red alert 2. But they made it "looking better", they changed things in it and I didn't even try the Red Alert 3.

It shouldn't be about great looking, just look at Minecraft. It looks awful, but it has something that makes people fanatics about it.

The Fallout is different, because they changed everything in it, but somehow they made it successful. However It's not easy to call Fallout 3 a Fallout game.

Back in Action was 5 bucks, so I got it. It was not horrible, but the characters had nothing. I can't remember any of them. Same with the Jagged Edge. (That was the Russian one, right?)

If only 1 month and Flashback is out, I can expect anything fantastic, unfortunately. I really wanted to, but so much bugs, the fightings system is not good, the shooting sounds are below good, and so on.

I wish I'd be wrong, but I don't have high hopes.   :-(

@Syrop

yeah exactly. Imagine they made only the core functions and features but the whole community makes the maps with the editor -_-

Maybe that would be the next step in crowdfunding -> crowddevelopment...

I'd like that idea. We can make maps and make up stories, just change the editor and make it possible for non-professionals to change everything. Also, make the gameplay/fight/shooting perfect, because that is the most important, I think.
I'm still hoping for that video-triggering thing too. :)

Hmm, I think it's called Open Source. Unfortunately, we would need license from bitComposer to use the name and likeness, and I doubt they would release it to public domain. I remember, when Strategy First went bankrupt, there were rumors of fans acquiring rights to Jagged Alliance, and I seem to recall seeing 300k figure mentioned. But that was before Back In Business fiasco. But as the saying goes, it is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. If bitComposer keeps passing around the license like a village bicycle, we can buy it for a dollar. Jokes aside though, the next best thing is to come up with all new characters, background story, etc and use the JA as an inspiration to build a whole new world worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence.

Actually asking you just that in the next KS update, but I definetely should have done that earlier..it has taken a long time to finalize all the lists. Still not 100% about the making of JAF, but I think it will be a mix of existing content and interviews with key people. 

Well i was quiet the last months because i am sadly disappointed. It is not because FC messed up, but because i perhaps expected too much. I really hoped that FC would make a JA2 clone and i realized that they won't be able to do it :(

It is not their fault. But it still is disappointing.

I had very high hopes and realized in the last months that they can't be fulfilled.

For me the game lacks important things (atmosphere) and is for me not playable, because of bugs or simply because it makes no fun.

I also was one of the guys that wanted FC to work longer on the title, not only for JAF sake, but also for their own. I fear that a release of JAF in this state would ruin their name.

But well, we can't have it all.

I hope for the best possible game at release, but my expectations are extremely low now.

 

We all had very high hopes because we all jumped on board, even Ian Currie. Facing only 1 year of development, I guess I was sold by the idea, that they had the engine and the assets, but 1 year are just 12 months.

I don't wanna sound harsh, but working on a website is no excuse, you can do a site like this in 1 day by 1 person. Only advanced thing the site has are the kickstarter badges, for the rest you take and mod a template.

Just only planing with 12 month was the mistake. Maybe the SH sales played a role.

But to be honest, I was very sceptical and I guess you guys as well, after the KS endet. Barely 350k with a huge effort did not felt very promising.

The Elefant in the Room is just that JA2 1.13 is such a beast and even if we don't want to, we always have 1.13 as our baseline of expectations.

I think FC should focus on mobile games in the future, because the PC releases will get them only in trouble. At the end of the day, what they really are good at is, developing fun turn based games for tablets. For PC they need to rethink their business plan in order to stretch development time and funds.

But nonetheless I really like FC.

 

It makes you wonder why they would even attribute the Jagged Alliance name to this (other than obtaining a just-add-water fan base). This game feels like it could be so much more if only they weren't limited by having to put in JA themes. Its impossible for Full Control to make anything as close to the deep JA2 1.13, especially with their team size, budget and time span, so surely it would make sense to just make something else instead of pissing off JA fans with a watered down version of something we can already play.

Sure, but it could only be so much more if they put in another year of work or maybe more. And I doubt they could have secured the $350.000 on KS without the Jagged Alliance brand name in the first place...

Overall they promised to deliver a good basic game but when I look at the kickstarter from the start I can't hate on FC. Maybe from a gamers perspective I could hate but I like the guys from FC, because of that I also backed the game. When you look at the business and when you see it from the devs perspective this project is very hard in many ways. You have a huge brand with many fans and expectations and remember what FC has:

- A small indie studio 

- A really small budget for this type of game

- One year development time

- Many stuff to implement and to handle from the kickstarter and the backers

When you look at these points you can't really hate on FC, because it is nearly impossible to get on the level of JA2 with this restrictions.

In the end I still hope they make the game great. If we get a good basic game but not the deepness of JA2 its ok for me. Its only important that the game can transport in some ways the soul of JA. Just hope the final build can bring us some JA soul.

Even playing with JA 1 is still fun. It's not about the design, the fighting was awesome, we got the characters there too, they were funny and cool. Old game, but I finished it like 2 years ago. The look and pixel resolution didn't bother me, really. :)

I regard this as an investment and myself as an investor.

I invested in this because:
I love JA
Was hoping to relive the emotions of my childhood (My first was actually JA:DG)
Played Frontline Tactics (FC game from where I learned about JAF) which was really solid simpleTBS and I knew this guys get this genre.

Not saying this investment was a total failure or great success, it is probably going to be a ok for me. But the only thing that would make me sad if this is where JA would end, I hoped that this would be a simpler JA and the next one would be the real thing. If it goes on from here and we something besides JAF I am happy.

The only thing that I would like from FC is that after the game is out and things are not so crazy you give us feedback and explain - what was behind certain design choices and where did you make mistakes (at least for the hidden forum backers). As investors this would be fair and believe me going over what was wrong and explaining it will help in your future projects.

But for now keep pushing!

If the final game is like what i can play on steam i do regret investing in FC, and would not do it a second time. There is a huge lack of information on what to come or what is built, and i think they´ve done this on purpose not to annoy anyone who could give additional money in the later process (like me). Nobody seems to know anything about the development or isnt telling about it. And it seems like the coders are the bosses, not the ones in charge. JAF Admin has no clue about the development 2/3th of the times (or doesn´t tell about it). That just implicates that noone wants to be on the front page of this project, hmmmmm....maybe because everyone in the team knows its not good to be? It seems just 1/2 of the promises have been held.

I have many friends (including 2 brothers) who have played JA2 (with me) in the past. I guess they all would buy the game if í would recommend it from my heart or if it was something like the old game with new graphics (and/or some new inserts). 

Why do i have to recommend it? Because they have never heared of this project. I cannot recommend it at all at this point of development, sry. I´m a genre specific nerd and do need more to enjoy such a game. I can´t say: Hey look here! thats cool...join in with me...

I don´t want to destroy anything before release, but if there is no rich improvement thats my statement. Its harsh but its true (and i think not just for me).

 

I think they're pretty much aware that with such glaring bugs (especially on UI and AI part) the game should not be released. But...

If this was the 90s and the 90s had Kickstarter and Steam EA, you would pretty much say the same thing about the game in the picture below, won't you? This is the downside of being involved in testing a game while in development, it's like seeing "that pretty woman" without her make-up in the morning.

If i´d see such a picture i would say make it look better.

Edit: And yes, if she wakes up in the morning i can see her grace although she hasn´t her makeup on. Her smile is a pleasure even if her lips are smeared with lipstick ;) but here (this game) it doesn´t seem that way. It seems she´s ugly one way or another. ...

Its half of a month to release^^, so there is no room for improvements AND bugfixing/finishing up all that in my opinion. But if im wrong its due to the lack of information about the development from FC. It´s no fun to be in the dark hoping for hope.

I will test the game honestly when its released

You're welcome to come and see my Twitch stream when they release the Steam EA version. You will be able to see both the good parts and the ugly parts. Hopefully more of the first, less of the second.

I would be happy to see an honest review from someone who knows what he´s talking about ;).... and i also hope for more good than ugly.

Edit: can you give a link to you twitch acc? (for ease)

personally i would have no problem with the state of the game if the release wouldn't be this year.

They made huge progress, but are still far away from a finished game.

@Glettkin - sure, the twitch channel is this:

http://www.twitch.tv/shanga_bp

You can find some older highlights from previous streams in there so if you browse those you can see how much the game progressed. You should also make a free Twitch account and Follow the channel and that will notify you the moment next stream goes online. I also usually give a notice on the Bear's Pit Facebook page the day I plan to stream (https://www.facebook.com/bearspit) so people can make time to watch.

 

i gave them a chance hopefully they can deliver, however if they failed its really bad for their reputation as there wouldnt be any 2nd chance ...., and I will stear clear of any future products from them

@Shanga - thanks for the link... have saved it in txt. file. I will follow your posts on twitch as soon as my new internet connection is established (i have moved). At the moment i have a grand 7kb/sec :) with a temporary stick.

So in a week or two i will look at it. I would like to see some review from first hand (alpha), because steam (my version) seems to be far behind.

cheers

With more time and money this game could've been alot better, no disrespect to FC they seem like a could company and a capable from what ive seen at making a JA game, just hope this game doesnt damage the JA name {anymore then it has been} or there own rep.

 

 

I am worried but hope for the best for the sake of FC and JA in general. Pillars of Eternity got delayed (again) because they want release the best possible product. I was sure FC would delay the game but to my surprise this will not be the case. I got my fingers crossed.

I guess they at least reserve their judgement on that issue until the very last build is done. Yea, it will lack a tonne of JA2 features, but if it's a solid game, without annoying bugs, it will sell enough copies to justify a comeback and a later polish.

And if it has atmosphere and a soul!